The transmission typically accepts a 6.3 quart fill. But look at the clutch pistons and spring dampers they are markedly different. The 4L80E is a very large, heavy transmission but, like its original TH-400 cousin, it can absorb and transmit an enormous amount of engine torque. I am interested in enhancing my vehicles performance. 6L80/6L90/8L90/10L90 AN Transmission Cooler Manifold Our Price: $150.00 Out of stock We now offer a convenient AN trans cooler manifold solution for the 6L80, 6L90, 8L90, and 10L90 transmission. The 6L80 was, from the ground up, developed as an electric over hydraulic transmission with microprocessor control. The complaint A 2005 Ford F350 with the 6.0 liter diesel engine and 5R110W transmission has set a P0753 Pressure Control Solenoid A Electrical Fault code and a P2700 Transmission Friction Element A Apply Time Out Of Range code. 3) 6L80E with fixed output flange is about 2 1/2" shorter than 4L60E and about 3 1/2" shorter than 200-4R. During the inspection of the transmission, Brain noticed that the idler gear could be easily lifted off of the bearing with just the use of his fingers (see figures 2 and 3). Accelerate from a stop with light throttle (15%), ensuring that upshifts 1st through 8th occur at engine speeds between 1300-1600 rpm. RECALLS! Do you think that I might pick up a few more hundredths if I switch the lock on say when I hit second? The height of the standpipe tube attached inside the transmission to the bottom of the pan sets the oil level. The readers on this site are a pretty sharp bunch. Hi, im doing a swap from Yukon 2019 to 1987 Regal. Gears Magazine I am making a great deal of changes to the truck from a Procharged 5.3 to a head, cam, Fast LSXRT intake LS2 on nitrous before we build a 3.9 bore and stroke twin turbo 372ci setup. Also since the transmission is different the gearing and tuning are naturally different. These solenoids are directly proportional in that zero current equals zero pressure, and maximum current equals maximum pressure. Copyright 2012 After an internal inspection of your transmission, we will notify you of any hard part damage that will carry an additional cost. We Specialize In: GM LS Conversions Engine & Trans Combo Kits Unique Ready to Run Engines Have a question? Nothing but problems with it big clunks, engine revs up before grabbing a gear. Looking for parts number : new shaft, copling et seal and where to find them. The 10L80 was a joint engineering effort between GM and Ford. The high pressure oil pump inside this transmission is incredibly complicated for no visible reason. This version is 1-3/8" longer and about 25% of its internal parts differ. They can then use these unseen components throughout their different product lines and improve their profit margins through the lower shared development costs. The stator shaft support housing comes with these gears as one assembly. With a dry weight of approximately 230 lbs, its also very light considering the complexity. However some 2wd vans and HD truck versions had a, J Series Trucks & Wagons, (I6 Recommended fluid is Dexron VI and it typically accepts a 10 quart thru 12.6 quart fill depending on its application. Transmission Pan Bolt Set Chevy 6L80E 6L90E 8L80E 8L90E 10L80E 10L90E 18pcs. Ford is currently using this unit in the following vehicles: The 10R80 has ten forward speeds, one reverse speed produced through the following components: The 10R80 utilizes six shift solenoids that are listed by the factory as A-F and are linear force solenoids (Figure 1). Why the Sonnax forged covers and pistons solve the problem. The TMBX and the JMBX have similar covers and use the same woven carbon friction material, yet the JMBX fails catastrophically at a very high rate and the TMBX cover rarely fails. Each clutch is controlled by a corresponding shift solenoid A-F. See how the ratios have swapped places? Brake very gently to a complete stop and hold the foot brake for five (5) seconds. So you would need to begin with a 2008 or newer Express to be able to convert from a 4L80 to a 6L80 / 6L90. Beyond that, its probably not a good idea even if it will allow lockup because that clutch surface area is limited. This transmission is the result of a collaborative effort with General Motors. But before you have a brand induced meltdown, lets look at all the things that make the 10L80 transmission so unique. Fourth 1.80 Thought's? Then it can upshift to one of its three overdrive gears for maximum fuel economy. Upon full inspection, the unit is loaded with metal, and the pump (bell housing) is worn to the point of needing remachining or replacement. 10L80 Transmission Specs General - 10-speed automatic with integral turbine clutch torque converter Application - RWD & 4WD / AWD RPO Code - MF6 Production Began - 2017 Case - 1 piece aluminum with integrated bell housing Torque Converter - 260 mm with Electronic Controlled Capacity Clutch (10L80 ECCC) None of the above categories describe me. This seems to indicate that there will be other 10L80 transmissions that will be experiencing this same new kind of pump noise condition. While not new to the 6L80, it uses an Input Speed Sensor to monitor input speeds to compare against engine speed and Output Shaft Sensor speed, using this data to adjust shift speeds under instantly detectable conditions. The torque converter is a fluid turbine drive and - like those on its predecessor transmissions, the TH350C, 700R4, 4L60, and 4L80E - features a lock-up pressure plate for direct mechanically coupled driving from the engine crank. Applications. The 6L80 transmission pan is similar in shape but the 6L80 is shorter at 17 1/2 inches. It can also be found in the Lincoln Navigator. But, GM had been in transmission limbo, so to speak, needing a modern transmission to fill the duty gap between the excellently versatile4L60E (and its tougher 4L65 & 4L70 variants)and the Allison transmissions. How is this different from the GM 6L80E transmission that is used in the Corvette or in the newer GM trucks? This creates an uneven force on the clutches that tends to . Dimension "C" is the distance from the bellhousing to the center of the transmission mounting pad. In fact the input torque rating is 440 lb. Jeff Smith has had a passion for cars since he began working at his grandfather's gas station at the age 10. The idler gear is what drives the pumps driven gear. The 6L80E uses four under drive gears and two overdrive gears. At this point, the converter rebuilder is faced with either finding another core that he hopes will have good components or purchasing a Sonnax forged cover GM-CC-13 and forged piston GM-DA-17P. Its the best of both worlds. The source of the contamination, however, is not readily apparent. * WILL ALLOW USE . In this video I show how to change flush the transmission fluid and filter on a 2012 Chevrolet Silverado with 6.2L with the 6 speed automatic 6L80E The Ford version is built at their Livonia transmission plant (Ford spent a reported $1.4 billion on retooling to build this transmission), and the GM version is built only a few miles away at their transmission factory in Romulus Michigan (GM spent a comparatively cheap $323 million retooling this factory). In 2018 and later models with the transmission warmer mounted to the transmission, there can be a concern with coolant leaking under the vehicle. AM-DT-51190 threads into that port and connects to the J-45096 TransFlow. The 6L80 would have big shoes to fill, with legendary predecessors like the TH400, 4L80E and 4L60E transmissions. Cadillac CT5 2021 MHS Automatic 10L80 Transmission 10-Speed 24294949 AWD 2427812. Homepage: Garage: Wiki: Register: Community: Calendar: Today's Posts: Search: #Camaro6 . While Sonnax makes every effort to ensure the accuracy of technical articles at time of publication, we assume no liability for inaccuracies or for information which may become outdated or obsolete over time. After a prolonged drive time, DTC P0752 Pressure Control Solenoid A - Stuck On and P0973 Pressure Control Solenoid A - Circuit Low also set. Fluid Capacity 13 qts, First 4.70 80 series is rated for 80 Newton's, 90 series is rated for 90 Newton's. Legal/Privacy. Like earlier automatics, the 6L80 features one line pressure tap available for testing and diagnostic purposes. The 6L80 / 6L90 uses three-way solenoids and variable bleed solenoids for improved shift quality. TIPM Problems! However, it is a long transmission and is not compatible with short-wheelbase Jeeps such as the CJ5. They all look really similar, so make sure that you bother to count the pan gasket bolts, especially if you have an untrained eye. For the 4L60-E TMBX, the pistons are .115" thick, and for the 6L80, 6L90 JMBX, the pistons are significantly thicker at .150". It also contains a durable transmission pan, reliable gear seat, EPC, a 13-vane pump assembly, high-performance cooler, hardened stator shaft with rings and specialized control solenoids. The question is will the 10L80 be as strong as the 10L90? Sometimes, finding the cause of a complaint isnt as straightforward as one would expect; sometimes, these causes can be very elusive. Torque Converter 260 mm with Electronic Controlled Capacity Clutch (10L80 ECCC) $3,245*. As such, Sonnax has a good view of both sides of the pump, so we are intimately involved with engineering solutions to both trending transmission AND converter issues. * DOES NOT INCLUDE A DRIVESHAFT OR CROSSMEMBER. TSB 18-NA-026 Transmission fluid leak Although the basic engineering is the same, the GM 10L80 and Ford 10R80 each have proprietary control software, along with a few other differences that are suited for each specific application. 4. By combining a wide 7.39 overall gear ratio spread, with smaller steps between each gear, this GM 10-speed automatic transmission is able to keep the engine in its ideal power band during acceleration. and it can handle a total gross vehicle weight of 8,600 lb, which makes it a great transmission for LS swaps with no modification needed whatsoever. While the 6L80 is generally mechanically compatible with Chevrolet and GM Gen. III+ engines, due to its advanced control strategy, the 6L80 is functionally compatible only with Generation IV GM engines and their matched Engine Control Modules. For a type B code, the fault must be present after two consecutive ignition cycles, otherwise, the MIL will not illuminate (however, a pending code will store). What is your recomendation for towing? The complaint is usually associated with the vehicle sitting for a while (after it has been running at operating temperature). Comparing that to our old TH-400 combo, wed need 5.40:1 rear gear to equal the overall First Gear ratio in the new Corvette. 60 mph with cruise on going down hill and truck will start down shifting. Drive the vehicle until the engine and transmission reach normal operating temperature. RPO Code MF6 This is a normal and desired behavior. Please help>> I have a 2013 GMC yukon. After graduating from Iowa State University with a journalism degree in 1978, he combined his two passions: cars and writing. To handle the increased output torque capacity, the 6L90 departed from the long-standing GM 32 spline specification output shaft of the 6L80 and went to larger diameter 29 spline for most truck applications. To achieve this flip-flopped damper orientation in the JMBX, the profile and shape of the piston is radically different from the TMBX. This 7-3/8" long extension housing can eliminate transmission crossmember modifications when replacing a TH400 or TH200-4R transmission with a 4L60 assembly. What is most welcome about it is that it is a very durable, functional and impressive transmission assembly and appears to have a terrific prospect with GM and the aftermarket community. 2018 YUKON DENALI 64K ON THE MILES HAS A CLICKING NOISE AT A IDLE LIKE A CRACKED FLYWHEEL OR SOMETHING BOUNCING IN THE PAN CHEVY PUT NEW EXHAUST ON IT THINKING IT WAS IN THE CONVERTER ALSO PUT A NEW PUMP IN THE TRANS THIS SOUND IS NOT THE SAME EVERY TIME SOUNDS LIKE A BOUNCING BOLT SINCE THE PUMP WAS IN STALLED NOW SEEMS TO OLY MAKE NOISE WHEN WARMED UP MY SON IS A TRANSMISSION MAN HE SAYS IT A SOUND THEY MAKE WHEN THEY ARE SUCKING AIR NOT SURE ON THAT I WAS A MECHANIC FOR MANY MANY YEARS CANT FIGURE THIS OUT NOR CAN GM ANY THOUGHTS ON THIS ? In 2006, GM superceded Dexron III as the recommended fill with Dexron VI, which is backwards compatible with the earlier versions. Now, the high-speed CAN network allows a high rate of data sharing between the units to achieve a collaboration between both engine and transmission functions. Note: The mounting pad is usually a part of the extension housing, but the graphic shows it on the maine case. We pride ourselves in staying at the forefront of our industry, technology, research & development and our commitment to you, our customer. Related Articles Dana offers Spicer end yokes for Allison Transmissions ATI introduces six-speed Chevy transmission performance package Georend Transmission adds Ford 6R140 transmission pan kit. Also, Im not sure if the trans will allow converter lockup at WOT. Then, because the six-speed is splitting ratios, the rpm drop between gears is less because TCI has turned this into a five-speed automatic with an overdrive. This transmission makes an excellent conversion transmission due to its adaptability into most Jeeps longer than CJ5s. Much akin to the GM 10L80-E & 10L90-E transmissions is the 10R80 transmission's oil pump. Theres also a unique internal thermal bypass that allows the transmission to warm up faster, reducing fuel consumption on cold starts. Cost and Process, Torque Converter Problems: Symptoms & Replacement Cost, Transmission Solenoid: Symptoms & Replacement Cost, 10 Pro Tips on Buying Used Transmissions For Sale, P0700: Transmission Control System Malfunction (TCM), Pontiac Firebird Transmission Problems & Cost | 4L60E / 4L65, Cadillac SRX Transmission Problems & Cost | 5L40E | 6L50 | 6T70, Ford Crown Victoria Transmission Problems & Cost | 4R75E / 4R75W / 4R70W, Chevy Equinox Transmission Problems & Cost | 6T70 / 6T45 / AW55-50SN, Saturn Aura Transmission Problems & Cost | 6T70 | 6T40 | 4T45E. The complaint A Ford vehicle equipped with the FNR5 transmission has a complaint of a severe slipping condition in reverse. 2020 10l80 4wd an I one to convert to 2wd. Will this hurt the trani? The transmission lacks a direct-drive, but features two overdrive gears. When cutting the JMBX open, converter rebuilders report that a high percentage of units show extreme damage due to the clutch piston and front cover crashing into each other (Figure 1). Eighth 0.85 TH400, TH200-4R, TH700-R4, 4L60, 4L60E (without converter), 6L80E Fluid capacity with 258 mm converter, 6L80E Fluid capacity with 300 mm converter, 6L90E Fluid capacity with 300 mm converter. The solenoids are calibrated from the factory and are not all the same. It employs an even deeper First gear ratio of 4.02:1 with tighter gear splits but does not apply an overdrive for subsequent gears. The GM transmission is the 10L80, which is available in several models as well. We all know that automatic transmission failures can have many root causes. Sticking valves and sticking CIDAS solenoids are becoming more common concerns with these units. To view our 2020 replacement transmission pricing guide, click here. It is a heavy duty version of the 6L80 six speed automatic with a strengthened input gearset which has two additional pinion gears for six total and a strengthened output gearset that uses wider gears than the 6L80. Second 2.99 The 6l80 was designed to handle the torque output of some of GM's biggest late-model LS (gen 4) and LT (gen 5) v8 engines, but a number of design flaws created most of the common 6L80E transmission problems. The 6L80 was approved for use in these vehicles weighing up to 8600 lbs. Indirectly affects shift scheduling and TCC scheduling. For now, the bulk of reported cases are related to diesel vehicles. _____ HBM 2016 2SS A8 NPP Pray . Third 2.15 Inspect the warmer for damage and related lines for leaks (Figure 4). R.F. Learn how your comment data is processed. They are listed as Type A, Type B, and Type C diagnostic trouble codes. Drivability concerns are confirmed, and the pan is chock full of debris. It employs an even deeper First gear ratio of 4.02:1 with tighter gear splits but does not apply an overdrive for subsequent gears. This is a normal and desired behavior. At times the 10-speed transmission may skip gears when the vehicle downshifts to a complete stop. The new 10-speed combo is 4.70 x 2.85 = 13.39:1. Tested: 2023 BMW M4 CSL Is a Track Monster. The TCI six-speed version has a few special additions to it. The 10L80 moniker is decoded. Special tools are often needed when diagnosing transmission problems and overhauling units. In any event, precise coordinate measuring (CMM scans) of a variety of JMBX covers shows that the covers are wavy and have undulations on the clutch surface, especially opposite of the welded cover pads. The 1-piece aluminum case houses a slim 260mm 10L80 torque converter inside the integrated bell housing. This product is NOT intended to be used on factory OE vehicles such as; Cadillac, Corvette, Camaro Helping transmission shops achievesuccessful and profitable operation. If you have any questions that I may be able to help you with, drop a comment or contact me. Thank You.. Jef, Swapping a LS3 and 6 spd trans in , In place of a 454 and a turbo 400 3 spd, I currently have posi rear, Big yolk drive shaft, after the conversion, will i need to mess with the rear gear, or will I be ok for around town and occasional red light duel. Over time, technicians start to see the same patterns of failures in different families of units. or Best Offer . Running 12.60s at 111 is a fun ride! Stock capacity . JT. Quick 6 Clutch-to-Clutch Transmission Control System Our top-of-the-line controller for 6R80 transmissions. Problem Owners may experience an ATF leak coming from under the vehicle. and GCVW of 21,000 lbs. Required fields are marked *. Did the converter clutch material just wear out, thus allowing the clutch and cover to go metal-on-metal? Electronic challenges exist when mixing and matching the 6L80 as they must be matched to their particular engine. It probably wont do much for the elapsed time which is all that really matters. It features a dry weight of ~195 lbs. Its extremely important to scan all modules for codes and address those codes first! Also fits '05-'06 Pontiac GTO (differential side). Newer to the transmission world is its use of direct clutch-to-clutch shifting and the total lack of bands. The overall First gear ratio is 2.48 x 4.10 = 10.17:1. This means that its designed for rear wheel drive vehicles only. The 6L90 transmission is slightly longer and taller than a comparable configuration 6L80 due to its beefier internals. Read more columns from our Shift Pointers series here. Thanks for the question! Sonnax highlights two product lines for helping with heavy solenoids for GM/Ford 10L/10R and 9T series transmissions. The 4L80 features a 310 mm torque converter. And Sonnax doesnt even offer a forged clutch piston for the TMBX there just isnt any demand for one. RATIOS 4.70, 2.99, 2.15, 1.80, 1.52, 1.28, 1.00, .85, .69, .64. The ball bearing remained tight on the stator shaft support housing. Starting with the 2017 Ford F-150, the 10R80 transmission was an option. The taper may exist so that the clutch surface goes flat when the cover is welded together were not sure. Thx The transmission will bolt up but will not work since the TCM, Tehcm and BCM are application specific and cannot interchanged. Ive heard a little about thisdid they add two more gears to the transmission? Remember, this is just a theory. 6L80E Torque Converter Power Raptor Full Size Non-Billet Number 88-6L80-1, now with Billet Cover Option. Mine did it on flat ground only it downshifted four or more gears with a loud bang then jumped back up to tenth with the same bang. The stator shaft support housing is fitted with a converter drive gear and idler gear. All this is handled with application of planetary ratios. Finally I am looking for a Chevrolet Caprice PPV to build into a fun road trip sedan for the family with either a LS3 or L92 engine block, stock LSA crank, rods, pistons, ARP hardware through out with CNC LS3/L92 heads and a pair of turbos with a goal of 750-950 horsepower at the wheels. Why is that? So is the 10L90 entirely different or does it just have stronger parts? The question is will the 10L80 be as strong as the 10L90? Automatic Options - 4L60 and 4L60E. About 80% of issues are cured by updating the programming. The GM Hydramatic 6L80 transmission heralds a significant change in the design of automatic transmissions at General Motors. But I was su unhappy with it I sold a bunch of parts and began changing the built. ! Fluid Type Mercon ULV ATF To be honest, we arent 100% sure of the real reason for JMBX cover and piston failure, but we do have a theory. As we have all learned with other units, very often the root cause of a converter clutch failure stems from a failure within the electro/hydraulic controls from the transmission. Use it to verify the vehicle has a M30 4L60ENow, if the transmission is out of the vehicle (or if you dont trust a sticker), the 6L80E has an 18 bolt case. TH350 High Performance Transmissions / 850 Hp Full Race, TH400 High Performance Transmissions / Stage II - Stage VI, TH200-4R High Performance Transmissions / Stage I - Stage III och Full Race, TH700R4 / 4L60E / 4l65E High Performance Transmissions / Stage II - Stage V, 4L80E / 4L85E High Performance Transmissions / Stage I - Stage V, 6L80E / 6L90E High Performance Transmissions / Standard - 1000Hp, Speed Potential Calculator for Ring Gear and Pinion Changes, Engine Alternatives. Shift the transmission to Drive. Page 2 August, 2019 Bulletin No. Will it be like the 5th gen's where the ss got the 6L80 and the more powerful ZL1 got the 6L90? full. Muncie M20 4-speed longitudinal wide ratio manual transmission made by GM at their Muncie, Indiana factory. The thought is that the bowl shape of the TMBX is better suited towards a more even apply, and because its thinner, the TMBX piston has the ability to flex and better conform to the front cover. Had transmission rebuilt (Pro).My problem is that when it gets around 35, 8L90E Specs, Performance, and Identification, TH400 Transmission Specs, ID, and Common Problems, Mazda 6 P0320: Meaning, Causes, & Diagnosis. document.write("- "+yr); It is a heavy-duty version of the 6L80 six-speed automatic, with a strengthened input gearset which has two additional pinion gears for six total, and a strengthened output gearset, that uses wider gears than the 6L80. Copyright 2006-2020 GEARS Magazine. A rebuilt 10L80 will only have a certain number of components that get replaced. The 6L80E went mostly into large vehicles with V8 motors. The following drivability conditions will be present when this type of DTC is stored. See the pictures below to help you tell if you have the right transmission. I also have a 2wd 2006 Trailblazer SS with a forged 416ci stroked LS3 which makes around 600 hp or so with a Yank SS3600 stall converter. Be aware of your output shaft version before proceeding with any adaptation. The TCM-2650 is compatible with the GM 6L45/50, 6L80/90 . - Critical wear areas and vacuum test locations: GM 10L and Ford 10R series, - Shift pointers: A 4T65-E that wants to move in Park and Neutral, Being tuned in: The value of transmission tuning, Ford harsh downshifts: 6R75 2-1, 10R60 7-6, Announcing the winners of the Top 20 Products and Tools contest, Diagnosing an unusual problem: A slow-to-respond solenoid, Video: Lubegard Limited Slip Supplement overview, Diagnosing Chrysler transmission max line pressure and P0933, P0869, P1745 codes, How to service the Honda 10-speed transmission, Solving electronic control problems in todays automatic transmissions, Sonnax highlights 10L/10R solenoid stabilization retainer, 9T clip insert, GFX adds new pump for vintage Powerglide models, Searching for the source of an unexpected transmission fluid leak, Transmission slipping in fifth gear: An elusive cause of a common problem, 10R80/10L90 Ford & GM Ten Speed Unique Filter System. Structurally, the 8L90 is similar to the 8L45, except that it is made to handle more power and torque. Cart Efficiency and performance are the two main goals behind the GM 10L80 transmission. ** Currently 10L80 units are 2017+ so are dealer-only or salvage yard only. The Ford 10R80 is a new 10-speed, rear wheel drive transmission that's available in several models, beginning in 2017. Our transmission shop specializes in rear wheel drive Ford & GM high performance transmissions. The case is a cast aluminum alloy. The 6L80, adapted and ready for a Jeep Dana 300 and the Jeep New Process transfer cases. 2wd transmissions feature conical shaped tailhousings and an output yoke, which are replaced with a typically shorter 4wd style output shaft of varying lengths and spline counts, depending on the application. Engine | Drivetrain | Powertrain Technical Discussions, https://www.delphi.com/dynamic-skip-fire-1.